portrait-sculpture.com Forum Index portrait-sculpture.com
A site provided for professional portrait and figurative sculptors, as well as serious students
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Register(DISABLED)Register(DISABLED) 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Facial Expressions
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    portrait-sculpture.com Forum Index -> Internet Cafe
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kyle Vannoy



Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Lakeland, Florida

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Facial Expressions Reply with quote

Greetings to all of you - and thanks for the open and usful advice for those of us starting out in this feild. This is my first post on your forum. I just found this site yesterday - and it seems to be one of the most informative sculpture sites that I've found.

My question may be subjective, but I was wondering if you guys think that it is important to not put too much expression on a face. I definitely think that the very subdued and stoic look of most busts and sculptures give a respectful and peaceful look to the person. I wonder why I don't see more busts with smiles or other types of expressions. Is it because it is harder to pull off successfully? Is it tasteless? Is it just not done that way for some other reason? I come from a character animation background and I have always been taught to put lots of expression in your characters' faces. I am still pretty new to sculpture and am trying to learn about the motivation and concepts behind it.

Thank you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Will Pettee



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 130
Location: SF Bay Area, California

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, I believe you should capture the "essence" of your subject whether they are stoic or happy. How did they look to everyone who met them?

If someone was always jovial and smiling, a stoic faced portrait wouldn't do them justice. It wouldn't be capturing their essence.

I think some portrait artists are more comfortable portraying emotions in their sculpts than others and may be why they choose one way or another to portray a person.

Just my 2 cents...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kyle Vannoy



Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Lakeland, Florida

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot Will. I'm sure it also has a lot to do with what the client approves of - in the case of portrait commisions. In the end I suppose it all comes down to what they want to see. I appreciate your response. I like your work a lot. You seem to do fine art style bronzes as well as fantasy type characters which would be marketed to a different demographic. I guess thats the kind of versitility that helps ensure that the jobs keep comming in. By the way how did your John Muir submission into the Yosemitie contest go?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Will Pettee



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 130
Location: SF Bay Area, California

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words, Kyle. I sincerely appreciate it.

As for Yosemite....They said they weren't looking for sculpture like mine. They wanted more abstract or mix-media. Confused

Kind of a weird response considering they wanted realism in their paintings. Go figure. Anyhow, they had a change in management that led to this and that was his decision.

It's all good though. I'm still working on a presentation for some other folks associated with Yosemite to make a life size or larger version of the same piece.

Take care,

Will
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Roger Andrews



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 116
Location: UK, Wales

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kyle,

I think your right, most of the time the client dictates the expression but they will choose one that characterises the subject the best which is basically what Will said (and what I was going to say but he said it first Sad )

I mostly work from photographs and quite often get pictures of people laughing and smiling.

Welcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy it here.

Roger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Heidi Maiers
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1223
Location: Near Portland OR

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kyle and welcome!
Expression is a tricky thing, isn't it? Personally, I hate seeing any serious sculpture with the mouth open or teeth showing. For some reason, it just looks creepy. It's fine in characature work because those are supposed to be silly or animated.
Just like a painted portrait would look funny hanging on a wall in someone's home that has too much expression (although they look fine with teeth), it seems even more unatural for a 3D portrait to have some frozen emotion on their face. A real person would never sit there grinning for eternity.
Of course, in the appropriate location, expression can be good and enhance the piece - as in the case of some sports figure installed at a sporting arena doing some action event and showing determination, grimace, or other emotion while frozen in their activity.
Does that make sense?

On the other hand, there is such a thing as too little expression. I am guilty of that myself sometimes (but am getting better) and the work ends up looking stiff and lifeless.
_________________
Heidi Maiers
Forum Owner
If you learned something here, consider donating to the COFFEE FUND!
http://portrait-sculpture.com/CoffeeFund.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kyle Vannoy



Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Lakeland, Florida

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to both of you for your experienced insight. Sounds like great advice. I look forward to progressing in this craft and learning and growing from what artists like you have to offer. I am in the process of considering which direction I should pursue in the diverse fields of sculpture, modeling and mold-making. I am inspired by the work of both of you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MrRusso



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting discussion... I personally find creepy portraits showing teehts only when cast in bronze Confused
_________________
www.mrusso.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Facial Expessions Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
Read the posts regarding facial expressions with great interest.Last year I was able to purchase a book called "The Fantastic Heads of Franz Xaver Messerschmidt".I'm wondering if anyone in the group has viewed his work and what their impressions are?

Joel Levinson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heidi Maiers
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1223
Location: Near Portland OR

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Joel,
I've seen photos of Franz' busts - here are a few examples for those unfamiliar with his works (created in the 1700's).
While extremely fascinating as studies of human expression, as sculptures I have mixed emotions about them. I find them somewhat disturbing to have extreme expression frozen in stone like that, but at the same time, think they're wonderful!






_________________
Heidi Maiers
Forum Owner
If you learned something here, consider donating to the COFFEE FUND!
http://portrait-sculpture.com/CoffeeFund.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Stuart



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 834

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will has hit the nail right on the head there!.........and Heidi's point about avoiding the frozen moment..........couldn't agree more............better to capture the moment before or after.
The Messershmidts are famous and wonderful, but in that case, the expression was intended as the main point of the work and any likness secondry I imagine.

Sorry to hear about the Yosemite thing Will!............committees can make you feel like screaming sometimes. I'd better not get started on that subject. Hope this other project turns into something good.
Stuart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Expressions Reply with quote

Hiedi and Stuart,
Thank you for your feedback regarding Messerschmidt's work.They are as disturbing as they are good.From reading , I believe some of them were supposed to be disturbing.Apparently some of his contemporaries said he believed spirits were going to come for him at night and he believed having various images of himself would confuse them and he'd be safe.Others said it wasn't likely he was that adled as someone in that condition couldn't have been that prolific.

Joel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Stuart's DVD Reply with quote

Stuart,
Received your DVD and viewed it this past weekend.Thank you for the many constructive and informative tips contained.I attended Pratt Institute for one year many years ago.Otherwise I'm self-taught.It was good to get professional instruction.

Joel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thaine Sprenger



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 103
Location: Coolidge AZ

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does the 'mona lisa smile' fit in? Seems to me it has is a lot of expression, but it is subtle at the same time.

Maybe we like to see very expressive sculpture now and then, but would tire of it quickly if it were sitting every day on our coffee table?

So... is it that in practical terms we want 'interesting' sculptures.... that give a mood or feeling to the room or area without overpowering them? At least, usually?

I just begain a likeness, it was coming along, and showed it to the model. I had no expression to speak of yet, ...was still getting a feel of her real life character. But on seeing herself looking blandly expressionless, she said it was unsettling and scary to her!!
Opps. But easy to fix. But like the origional question in this tread, I think too that we often have to little expression. I think even Heidi has been saying that sometimes her work feels stiff to her? Hummmm. guess there is some holy grail somewhere there in the middle that we all strive for!

But doesn't the Christian Bible credit god with saying "Would that ye were hot or cold, but being neutrally politically correct, I spit thee out of my mouth!!" ...er, something like that!? Does that have applications to sculpture?? Oh dear. Other than this issue being an old one, guess I've wandered a bit here. That's usually my clue to wander out to the studio instead! --till next time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heidi Maiers
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1223
Location: Near Portland OR

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that the rule of thumb about the expression is to exaggerate it to the degree that you would like it to be the focus of the sculpture. If the person and portrait is the focus, then you don't want the expression to overpower the piece. If intense emotion is the focus of the piece, or like these examples, the main study, then it's ok for it to be strong.
Subtle expression I think is more interesting - what's it about, what are they thinking, who are they - tends to draw in and connect with the viewer a little more I'd say when the emotion isn't so obvious.
_________________
Heidi Maiers
Forum Owner
If you learned something here, consider donating to the COFFEE FUND!
http://portrait-sculpture.com/CoffeeFund.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    portrait-sculpture.com Forum Index -> Internet Cafe All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group