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Rodin
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Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Wax Works Reply with quote

Stuart,
Wondering.Its been discussed here how if doing light eyes the detail is shallow,when doing darker hair more detail is needed etc..With the face some of the percieved depths are caused by variation in skin tone,moreso I suspect with aging.When sculpting for the wax was this recognised in the sculpt or the colorization?
Joel
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Phil Minchinton



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeanette, I totally agree about having an independent view when looking at artwork as well as any other issue. Hopefully based on a rounded and substantial understanding otherwise I think it ends up with a knee jerk reaction that says or achieves very little ( both in art and life e.g. sticking plaster laws)

Joel, as for what you say about the reactive element trying to demonstrate a departure from the status quo through various art movements, yep its true. Unfortunately though I think this normally takes the form (in modern parlance) of a new paradigm, where (as you said yourself) all 'old' ways are thrown out with the bath water without giving careful regard as to why they have been arrived at - mostly through accumulated experience. Also the conceptual approach seems the easier path and requires less studying or personal development in my view. It's interesting that whilst admiring the technical ability and skill involved in creating super realism, they have built in obselesence due to the materials involved. I understand that some of the early fibreglass figures created in the 60's are already causing problems for conservators.

Lastly, I'm interested too about the skin tones etc because I have been looking recently at comparison photos of celebrities with and without make up. It's remarkable how much difference it makes to the shape and appearance of the face but how can that be replicated in a monochrome clay portrait? I'd be interested to hear anyones views on this.
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Tamara



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 954
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's remarkable how much difference it makes to the shape and appearance of the face but how can that be replicated in a monochrome clay portrait? I'd be interested to hear anyones views on this.


Putting their photo in black in white would allow one to see the tonal values and emulate that. It's been recommended to tranfer the subject and sculpture photos, whether subject has make up or not, into B & W for comparison of lights and darks.
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Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: tonal qualities Reply with quote

Tamara,
I agree with you regarding the value of b&w photos.I think that once there the tones can be achieved with heavier texture as well as over accentuating the depth of features for the darker tones.

Joel
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Phil Minchinton



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 190
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for that Tamara, it certainly sounds a good way of identifying the subtle differences in tone and I'll have to give it a go.

Regards

Phil
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Jeanette Lewis



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: Merseyside U.K.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all-
Back to Rodin
and anyone here who may have studied him ...
What confounds my understanding of Rodin's interpretation of John the Baptist is that he claims it to be a means of refuting the accusation that one of his works (shown here i think it is the correct one...) was cast from life.

There doesn't seem to be any more to understand about it.
Or is there?
John the Baptist was a Jewish man who would have been consecrated to God as was the tradition for first born sons. He would not have been seen naked given Jewish morality - even when in the river Jordan.
There is so much richness in the biblical texts about him, and even the general description of how he lived on wild honey and locusts...that its disapointing to have such a lively character reduced to a naked man with a fig leaf...so was his real motive to upset the status quo and produce a " knee - jerk" reaction?
The only thing that identifies his figure as the biblical baptist "John" ;
is that Rodin named the satue as such. Perhaps he needed a subject with a beard as the ultimate proof that it wasn't cast from life?
And speaking of judging work that is of its time... here we have Anthony Gormley making a living out of doing that very thing...his life casts are predominantly of his own body - or used to be.
This beach is about 10 miles from my home. (Sorry the image is so small.)I think it ruins the view...I'd rather take in the sunset ona deserted beach thatn one populated by Gormleys.
We don't always have to understand an artist or their work - and sometimes sadly there isn't any depth to what they do - they are just caught up in the process which may be interesting for them, but not necessarily the viewer.
Does anyone have any further thoughts on this?
Jeanette
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Joel Levinson



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Long Branch, New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Gormley life cast Reply with quote

If he cast the figure from life rather than sculpt it he's a caster not a sculptor.The item is an excersize in casting not sculpture.I believe Stuart, when mentioning some alternative works ,referred to them as interesting items.I've seen interesting items as well,but,I don't necessarily consider them pieces of art.In many cases they are elements or parts of what might have been further developed.
I am at a disadvantage here as my philosophy and/or religious/spiritual beliefs didn't play a part in my developing an interest in sculpture.This doesn't mean that I consider myself a tradesman.I have a appreciation for the human form and its creation,and,the wonderful feel of clay in the hands,and, marvel at the work of the experts and masters.
As for Rodin;I believe like Messerschmidt he did what he wanted to do a good part of the time because he could.I don't know that any highly intellectual motives can necessarily be attributed...
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Stuart



Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 834

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think art often goes beyong the representational and there are no rules as to what you can use or where you can go with it.
Gormley had one or 2 good ideas, (example: Angel of the north) but the casts............mostly not very exciting. Probably those who farm artists in the UK up to their tricks again, pouring money into his pockets.

Jerusalem has an amazing modern art gallery. One day I walked into a room there hanging with lots of soft pink what looked a lot like stockings, and on the end of each was a shoe of varying sizes and styles, painted brown. Some came almost to the floor. The effect was magical and dreamy and you couldn't avoid them and had to reach the other side to exit. It took ages and made you smile.
Just before you left, in one corner was a pile of shoes, stacked neatly, and you were jolted into the realization of the feeling and design behind the piece.
I've always, like most people been horrified by the holocaust and this installation piece has lived with me until this day.
Stuart
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Jeanette Lewis



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: Merseyside U.K.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will probably make this my last post on this one...(giving up rambling for Lent - sorry little religious joke there... Smile )
Hi Joel,
appreciate your thoughts on this - you are right about the distinction you make about casting and sculpting...
Images are aids to prayer in my Catholic culture - the practice of "reading" or " contemplating" images goes back centuries when books were expensive, and so art helped to educate the poor and illiterate. (I'm still poor you see! Very Happy )
This peculiarity is ingrained as I happen to pray a lot - I am not sure if it is an advantage when looking at art in general, as sometimes the habit of asking oneself " Now what does that mean?" can get a bit infuriating - especially when the art hasn't much to say! Smile
Hi Stuart,
I have had that kind of reaction from "installation" art . It can be quite effective at times. Not sure where one ends and the next starts ...exhibition art, window dressing, set design and so on, and so the edges blur...
Finishing with a quote from John Randal Bradburne of Mutemwa (poet), on an artist's motives:
Quote:
An artist's joy consists in seeing his joy passed on and communicated to many people. Otherwise production becomes sheer frustration.

Jeanette.
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Jeanette Lewis



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 595
Location: Merseyside U.K.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S...
re the funding of Anthony Gormley's work -
I watched a documentary on Henry Moore last night - Anthony Gormley was interviewed at the end saying that the Henry Moore Arts Foundation had helped him enormously over the years...
My hubby said that Gormleys' figures on my local beach - (meant to be only a temporary installation) are now remaining where they are ad infinitum, because they have proved to be a tourist attraction.
Don't get me started on the "Lamb -banana" in the centre of the City... Smile
At last now my kids are well I can watch proper film on how a sculptor works - (your DVD Stuart ! Smile )
(that should keep me quiet a while!)
Jeanette
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Jan Flood



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>can hardly believe the depths that he managed to leave, particularly in his head modelling, the Burghers of Calais in particular.

I'm with you Stuart. In fact, I use the head of Pierre de Wissant, from the same sculpture, as an example of how expression can change a good sculpture into a great sculpture. This is a quote from Rodin. "I came gradually to the idea that sculptural expression is the essence of the art of statuary - expression through modeling." Rodin, 1893.

I admire many artists, yourself included, but Rodin has always touched a special place inside of me. I think maybe I associate with the process being more interesting than the finished piece Smile

By the way, I also referenced you in the book -- "Bruno Lucchesi, Stuart Williamson, and Lisa Lichtenfels all create their pieces from the inside out using different mediums but all three produce remarkable, lifelike creations."
Facial Reconstruction for Artists, 2010[/i]
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